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Author Topic: The Good News About *  (Read 8767 times)

jake62

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 09:30:08 PM »

Awesome in depth and informative.
Great food for thought Jon

Thanks
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BigMike

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 01:01:59 PM »

I strongly believe that if you accept life after death then you are accepting the serpent's lie in the garden
of Eden when he said, "ye shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4). This is spiritualism and this is anti Biblical.

Either God is telling us the truth or the devil is telling us the truth, there is no other way.

I urge you to watch the following video which clearly explains in amazing detail exactly what the Bible teaches on death and *:

The Mystic Realm of Death (video)

This video discusses:
Quote
Where do the dead go?
What does the Bible teach on this issue?
Is there a *?
Seven heavens?
Life after death?
Reincarnation?
Are there ghosts?
Does the Bible have anything to say about spiritism?
Discover the true teachings of the Bible on this often misunderstood topic.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 01:11:24 PM by BigMike »
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 01:10:52 PM »

Seriously, if you have been fighting with this issue, please watch this video. The amount of depth in this video is amazing.

I haven't had much time to work on this, as I have been extremely busy, but here are a few notes I have taken from the above video, The Mystic Realm of Death. These are all from about an 8 min span near the middle of the video:

The KJV Bible uses the word "soul" 1600 times but never once uses the term "immortal soul". Only God is immortal.

The Bible declares death as a sleep 53 times.

Job 14:10, "man giveth up the ghost" KJV, and the better translation, "man expires" NKJV

This is the Hebrew word "gava" which is - "die, give up the ghost, dead, perish to expire, be about to die"

Job 14:12 - So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Read John 11:24...... Did Martha say, "I know that he is now in heaven and one day he will come again and return to his body at the resurrection."? No, She said, "I know that he shall rise again IN the resurrection at the last day."

Read John 11:43-44....... When Jesus called Lazarus out from the tomb, did Lazarus say, "But Lord, why did you call me? I was having so much fun in heaven!" No, Lazarus continued on with his life like he had just woken up from sleep.

Even the last verse of Daniel says that we will rest and wait in our grave until the later days.

Is there a conscious existence after death?
Psalm 146:4 says your thoughts perish with you.
Ecc 9:5-6 - The dead don't know anything. Their love, their hated, and their envy all perish.
-- so no one is antagonizing anyone from the afterlife because the hatred and their envy all perish. So if someone says they are being attacked by their ex wife or whatever, this is pure nonsense and completely un Biblical.

Psalms 115:17 - The dead praise not the Lord.

Psalms 6:5 When you die you don't remember God nor can you praise God.

Ecc 3:19 - "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befaleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity."

---So animals and man die the same way because they all have one breath. Some churches teach that people go to heaven but animals do not because they do not have a soul. This is not biblical. This text is the proof. Everyone, man and animal, dies the same way, we all have the same metabolism.
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 01:31:10 PM »

Sorry for all the posts, but I forgot to mention this.

would you say jesus was a liar when he spoke of the perabol of the rich man an lazarus when the rich man woke up in * to burn for eternity?

1 hour 22 mins and 14 secs into the video Professor Veith describes this parable in great detail just after he explains how the doctrine of purgatory is not Biblical. Obviously you'll need to watch the video up to this point to fully what he is talking about with the lap of Abraham.

BigMike
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 01:31:40 PM by BigMike »
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2009, 10:40:00 PM »

I just found another website that does a great job explaining the Biblical *. Please read it and tell me what you think!

http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/prophecy-resources/bible-study-guides/bible-study-guide-list/study-guide-viewer.aspx?IID=2-11&LNG=en&TL=Is-The-Devil-In-Charge-Of-*
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 10:46:48 AM »

Hey guys,

I recently bought a book called Answers to Difficult Bible Texts, by Joe Crews, the founder of AmazingFacts.org.

ISBN: 1580190081


I would like to share Mr. Crews explanations of texts relating to *.

*

Angels cast into * - 2nd Peter 2:4
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to *, and delivered them unto chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."

   The word "*" in this text is very unique because it is translated from a word that is used nowhere else in the Bible. The Greek word "Tartaroo" is certainly not the same as the "Gehenna" *, which is referred to 12 times in the New Testament - always as a place of burning. There is no burning where the angles are confined, because it is described as a place of "darkness".
   In Jude verse 6 also, the fallen angels are said to be "... reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Please notice that these evil spirit beings are not now being punished, but are kept in darkness, reserved until the day of judgment. Both Peter and Jude speak of chains of darkness and future judgment. Since evil angels are obviously still functioning in deceiving people, we can only conclude that these chains of darkness are the spiritual restraints placed upon their actives until their final judgment and punishment at the end of the world.

Destruction of the Wicked / Unquenchable Fire - Isaiah 66:24
"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh."

   This description of the final destruction of the wicked assures us that they finally are lifeless "carcases" (dead bodies). Their bodies burn in the lake of fire. (See my comments on Mark 9:43, 44 for an explanation of the undying worm and unquenchable fire.)
   Since the walls of the holy city will be "clear as crystal" (Revelation 21:11, 18), the redeemed might easily go forth from their heavenly homes, look through the crystal-clear walls, and "see the reward of the wicked" (Psalm 91:9). This certainly will not be a very pleasant spectacle. Zechariah 14:12 says: "Their flesh shall consume away ..." But the wicked soon are burned up (Malachi 4:1, 3) and shall be as through they had not been (Obadiah 16). Then the earth is recreated as the eternal home of the righteous, all tears are wiped away, and there shall be no more pain (Revelation 21:1, 4).

Destruction of the Wicked / Unquenchable Fire - Mark 9:43,44
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut if off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into *, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

   In this verse the word "*" is translated from the Greek word "gehenna," which is another name for the valley of Hinnom located just outside the walls of Jerusalem. There the refuse and bodies of animals were cast into an ever-smoldering fire to be consumed. What might escape the flames was constantly being destroyed by maggots which fed on the dead bodies. Gehenna symbolized a place of total destruction.
   Jesus taught in this verse that the fires of * could not be quenched or put out by anyone. Isaiah said, "They shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame" (Isaiah 47:14). Yet he hastened to say in the same verse that "there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." So the unquenchable fire will go out after it has consumed the wicked as stubble. Jerusalem burned with unquenchable fire according to Jeremiah 17:27 when it was totally destroyed (2 Chronicles 36:19).
   The flames and worms of "gehenna" represented the total annihilation and obliteration of sin and sinners. Earlier apostasy and idol worship in the valley of Hinnom (Jeremiah 32:35), and God's judgments on Israel as a consequence, marked it as a symbol of punishment and judgment. God warned in Jeremiah 7:31-33 that it would become the "valley of slaughter" where the "carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven." With the fires of "gehenna" burning before their eyes, Jesus could not have spoken a more graphic word to the Pharisees to describe the final, total destruction of sinners.
   Those who cite this text to support their doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul are thrown into a real dilemma. Why? Because the fire and worms are working not upon disembodied souls, but bodies! According to Jesus, those who are cast into the lake of fire will go in bodily form, and this text confirms that truth. The verses before and after this text speak of the hands, feet, and bodies of those who suffer the Gehenna fire. In Matthew 5:30 Christ said, "the whole body" would be cast into *.
   In Isaiah 66:24, the same "gehenna" picture of * is presented with the unquenchable flame and the destroying worms. But in this case the word "carcases" is used, revealing the fact that the fire consumes dead bodies, not disembodied souls. Speaking of the enemies of the Lord, Isaiah 51:8 says that "the worm shall eat them like wool" - a picture of being put out of existence.

Destruction of the Wicked / Unquenchable Fire - Matthew 3:10-12
"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh afler me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear. He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

   Please notice that "fire" is mentioned in all three verses. In verse 10, the reference is unmistakably to the punishment of the wicked in the fires of destruction. In verse 12 there is even less question: the fire refers to the "unquenchable" fire of *. Then what about verse 11, the verse in between? It certainly would not switch the line of thought. Christ is pictured as One who will reward the righteous with the mighty power of the Spirit, and punish the wicked with the consuming fire described in the verses before and after. Both the Old and New Testaments speak of God as a "consuming fire" (Deuteronomy 4:24; Hebrews 12:29).
   Just as convincing also is the fact that all three of the verses clearly portray two classes - the good and the bad, the saved and the lost. In verse 10 it's the good tree and the bad, with the bad being "cast into the fire." In verse 12 it is the wheat and the chaff, and the chaff "will burn up." The verse in between - verse 11 - describes the two groups as those who are baptized with the Holy host and those who are baptized with fire. Sin will either be burned out now by the Holy Spirit or burned up then by His consuming presence. "He is like a refiner's fire... and he shall purify the sons of Levi" (Malachi 3:2, 3). Those who refuse to be purified from sin now will be burned up, with the sin, in the unquenchable fire.


Everlasting Punishment - Matthew 25:46
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

   It is well to notice that Jesus did not say that the wicked would suffer "everlasting punishing." He said "everlasting punishment." What is the punishment for sin? "Them that know not God ... shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9). There it is - plainly spelled out. The punishment is destruction, and it is of eternal duration. In other words, it is a destruction which never ends because there will be no resurrection from that destruction.
   Paul says, "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). John described that death as "the second death" in Revelation 21:8. That death, or destruction, will be eternal.

Everlasting Punishment / Place of Torment - Revelation 14:10, 11
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

   The words "for ever" do not necessarily mean "without end." In fact, the Bible uses this term 56 times in connection with things which have already ended. In Exodus 21:1-6, the Hebrew servant was to serve his master "for ever," but it was obviously only as long as he lived. Hannah took her son Samuel to God's house to abide "for ever" (1 Samuel 1:22), but she plainly limited that time to "as long as he liveth" (verse 28).
   The term is clearly defined in Pslam 48:14: "For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death."
   The desolation of Edom was to continue "for ever and ever" (Isaiah 34:10). Christ is called "a priest for ever" in Hebrews 5:6; yet after sin is blotted out, Christ's work as a priest will end.
   According to these definitions of the term "for ever," the wicked will suffer as long as they continue to live in the fire. Then, as the Bible states, "The wicked ... shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalm 92:7, See also Malachi 4:1-3).

Place of Torment - Luke 16:22, 23
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in * he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom."

   Either this story about the rich man and Lazarus is literally true or it is a parable. Here are four reasons why it could not possible by literalistic:
1.   The beggar died and was taken by the angels to Abraham's bosom. No one believes that Abraham's literal bosom is the abode of the righteous dead. It is a figurative or parabolic expression. Incidentally, the angels will gather the saints, but according to Matthew 24:30, 31, this will take place at the coming of Jesus, not at a person's death.
2.   Heaven and * were separated by a gulf, and yet the persons in each could converse with each other. There are probably few individuals in the world who believes that this will be literally true of the saved and the lost (Luke 16:26).
3.   The rich man was in * with a body. He had eyes, a tongue, etc. (Luke 16:24). How did his body get into hellfire instead of into the grave? I know of no one who teaches that the bodies of the wicked go into * as soon as they die. This story could not be literal.
4.   The request for Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and come through the flames to cool the rich man's tongue is obviously not literal. How much moisture would be left and how much relief would it give? The whole story is unrealistic and parabolic.
   The rich man undoubtedly represented the Jews in the parable because only a Jew would pray to "father Abraham." The beggar symbolized the Gentiles, who were counted unworthy to receive the truth. In Matthew 15:27, the Canaanite woman acknowledged that her people were beggars at the table of the Jews.
   Christ probably chose the name of Lazarus to use in the parable because later he would actually raise Lazarus from the dead. And the climactic point of the entire parable is found in verse 31: "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, through one rose from the dead." Sure enough, they didn't believe even when one named Lazarus was raised before them.

Soul and Body Destroyed in * - Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in *."

   Jesus clearly teaches in this text that the soul is not naturally immortal. It can and will be destroyed in *. But what does He mean about killing the body, but not the soul? Is it possible for the soul to exist apart from the body? Some say it is, but the Bible indicates otherwise.
   The Greek word "psuche" has been translated "soul" in this text, but in 40 other texts it has been translated "life." For example, Jesus said, "Whosoever will lose his life (psuche) for my sake shall find it" (Matthew 16:25).
   But what of Matthew 10:28? Put in the word "life" instead of "soul" and the text makes perfect sense in its consistency with the rest of the Bible. The contrast is between one who can take the physical life and Him who can take away eternal life. Proof lies in the words of Jesus: "And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into *" (Luke 12:4, 5).
   In other words, the word "soul" here means not only life, but eternal life. Notice that Luke says everything just like Matthew except that he does not say "kills the soul." Instead he says "cast into *." They mean the same thing. Men can only kill the body and take away the physical life. God will cast into * and take away eternal life. Not only will their bodies be destroyed in that fire, but their lives will be snuffed out for all eternity.

edit: fixing typos
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 11:30:49 AM by BigMike »
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BigMike

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 10:50:26 AM »

would you say jesus was a liar when he spoke of the perabol of the rich man an lazarus when the rich man woke up in * to burn for eternity?

suzuh and others,

Please see Crew's explanation of Luke 16:22, 23 regarding your question. His four points to prove how this is clearly not literal are really good, as well as his closing comments:

Quote
Christ probably chose the name of Lazarus to use in the parable because later he would actually raise Lazarus from the dead. And the climactic point of the entire parable is found in verse 31: "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, through one rose from the dead." Sure enough, they didn’t believe even when one named Lazarus was raised before them.


That BLOWS my mind that Christ already knew that the name of the person he would resurrect before he even met the guy. MAN God is AWESOME beyond our comprehension!

BigMike
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 10:55:08 AM by BigMike »
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"Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His. With His

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2009, 10:00:54 AM »

Hello again 4X 4Him,

Yesterday I was thinking about what the Bible says about eternal life. Please consider the following:

Genesis 3:22 tells us that if we eat from the Tree of Life then we will ...live forever.
Revelation 2:7 tells us, ...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Again in Revelation 22:14, we are told, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Also Revelation 22:2 tells us that the tree of life will ...yield her fruit every month.

I then propose the following question to you:
If the tree of life is in Heaven, and it is the source of eternal life for humans, and we will eat from it every month, then how will people supposedly live forever in a physical place called *? Is there some "evil tree of life" that will enable those people to live forever in a physical *??
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2009, 09:49:01 PM »

I realize I am having a monologue here, but I read some very good questions regarding death on another forum and for sure I would like to share them here:



Here is a list of practical questions that must be answered before one can believe there's no death. In Genesis 2:17, God tells that the consequences of disobedience is that we will "surely die". However, Satan says the opposite. Whoever we choose to believe instantly reveals who we also believe is a liar. That is a serious charge to make. Well one of them has a long track record of lying (John 8:44; Acts 5:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:9; Revelation 12:9).

I would like to share these for provocative contemplation, to share with those struggling with the issue of death. It is by no means an exhaustive list but just the scratching of the surface on this topic. Should you have others, feel free to add.


Questions regarding the state of the dead


1. Why in the book of Genesis chapter 2 and verse 7 does it say Adam BECAME a soul and not given a soul?

2. Jesus speaks words of comfort to his disciples in John 14:1-3 by telling them "I WILL COME AGAIN TO RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF....". Why didn't Jesus tell them THEY would go to him at death?

3. Just before Lazarus' resurrection in John 11:43, where was he? Did Jesus call him back to earth from heaven? That would've been rude?..or UP from * in which case Lazarus never gave Jesus proper thanks. You and I would?ve done so for sure.

4. Why didn't Martha take comfort in Lazarus supposedly being in heaven? Shouldn?t she be happy for him being in glory (if it's true)? Instead, she notes the resurrection as her comfort (John 11:24).

5. Once again in Acts 20:9-10 there is a resurrection, this time of Eutychus by God through Paul without one hint as to where he?d gone in those few moments, neither to heaven, *, limbo, purgatory, nirvana, or anywhere.

6. Why doesn't Ezekiel 37 (valley of dry bones) that describes the formation of a person/persons never brings up the subject of immortal souls?

7. Why does Ezekiel 18:4,20 say souls that sin will die (we've all sinned according to Romans 3:23; 5:12) if the soul is immortal?

8. Why is Paul?s focus in 1 Corinthians 15 ENTIRELY on the resurrection and not on the soul going to heaven?

9. Of all the resurrections recorded in the bible, why is there never any description of where they were? Doesn?t their souls travel to other places at death?

10. Why did Peter in the book of Acts (2: 29, 34) tell us David is not in heaven yet if the soul is immortal? He could not have said this if David?s soul was there.

11. Why does Joshua 10 tell us about all the souls Joshua killed if souls can only separate from the body AFTER death? How is it possible that Joshua can even kill a soul?

12. In the book of John after Jesus? resurrection he tells Mary Magdalene he ?had not yet ascended to his father?. How can this be if the soul goes to heaven at death?

13. Furthermore, how could Jesus promise the thief that they would be in paradise that very day (Friday) if Jesus hadn?t ascended to the father by Sunday morning?

14. Why do modern translations of the bible such as the New International Version use words like ?life, I, me, person/persons? instead of the King James Version ?soul? if it is immortal?

15. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Paul is comforting the believers of Thessalonica who were upset not knowing what happened to their deceased relatives. He writes of the second coming and then says in verse 18 ?Wherefore comfort one another with these words?. If their souls are immortal why doesn?t he comfort them that their relatives are already in heaven instead of waiting for the resurrection?

16. If 2 Corinthians 5:8 & Philippians 1:23 mean Paul believed he would go to heaven at the moment of death, why then does he say multiple times his hope is the resurrection and the second coming of Jesus? (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; Philippians 3:20-21; Titus 2:13)

17. If Ecclesiastes 12:7 proves the immortal spirit moves on after death then what to make of Job 27:3 that states ?All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils?? Does anyone really believe the immortal soul is residing in their noses?

18. If Rachel?s departing soul in Genesis 35:18 means she went to heaven why doesn?t it say that in the text instead of stating in parenthesis ?for she died??

19. If the story of Saul and the witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28:7-19) proves people live on in the spirit world why does God condemn the practice of calling up the dead in Deuteronomy 18: 9-12 calling it ?an abomination??

20. If there is life immediately at death then why does Job 14:12,14 ask the question and answer it with ??.all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come?? When is this change spoken of? (1 Corinthians 15:51-54)
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 09:12:14 AM »




Genesis 3:22 tells us that if we eat from the Tree of Life then we will ...live forever.
Revelation 2:7 tells us, ...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Again in Revelation 22:14, we are told, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Also Revelation 22:2 tells us that the tree of life will ...yield her fruit every month.

I then propose the following question to you:
If the tree of life is in Heaven, and it is the source of eternal life for humans, and we will eat from it every month, then how will people supposedly live forever in a physical place called *? Is there some "evil tree of life" that will enable those people to live forever in a physical *??

Hav'nt really had time to review this whole thread... but I'm curious as to why the OP only uses the KJV?  Why is it important that * be not a physical punishment for the lost, as it would seem is being asserted?  Why would that be "good news"???

As far as the above comment, does the OP believe people in heaven will have to physically eat fruit of this 'tree of life' in order to live forever?  
Also, Genesis only says that man 'must not' be allowed to take of the tree of life. It says nothing about * needing a tree for the lost.  :headscratch:
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.




« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 09:16:42 AM by RockWoRM »
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BigMike

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2009, 10:17:24 AM »

RockWoRM,

Thanks for the reply!

I'm curious as to why the OP only uses the KJV?

I mainly read from the KJV because I can't read Greek & Hebrew. I generally don't trust other translations. If you are curious about this, I recommend watching Walter Veith's Battle of the Bibles (discusses the validity and origin of translations), and then watch Changing the Word (how translations are modified to downgrade Jesus).

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Why is it important that * be not a physical punishment for the lost, as it would seem is being asserted?  Why would that be "good news"???

Because it shows God's character. If God tortured His enemies throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been. An eternal * of torment would be * for God also because he loves even the sinner.

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" Ezekiel 33:11

"For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them..." Luke 9:56

"For the LORD shall rise up in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act." Isaiah 28:21

God wants to save man, not destroy. The work of destroying is so foreign to God's nature that the Bible calls it His "strange act."

Mike


edit: wrote 'World' instead of 'Word'
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 04:20:13 PM by BigMike »
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RockWoRM

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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2009, 02:53:05 PM »





I mainly read from the KJV because I can't read Greek & Hebrew. I generally don't trust other translations.

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I can't read greek or hebrew either. Nor do I speak the kings english. KJV is also a translation by James 1 and the Church of England, so I don't see your point.

Because it shows God's character. If God tortured His enemies throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been. An eternal * of torment would be * for God also because he loves even the sinner.

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I would agree God is love, that is not in question. But if you believe it would torture Him (in your opioion),  why are all of us still under His wrath?  Not logical.  :hmmm:
Also, you did'nt answer my last question about the tree of life?


Mike
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2009, 04:18:58 PM »

Also, you did'nt answer my last question about the tree of life?

Please let me know what you think about all my comments, specifically Reply #20 and Reply #23 and then I will be interested in discussing the Tree of Life. I understand it's easiest to pick on my weakest arguments, as other members of this forum did starting with Reply #9 causing the entire thread to miss the big picture. So rather than picking on the little nuances that come into my mind 303 days after this thread was created, I challenge your thoughts to the more difficult Bible texts presented herein.

Regards,
BigMike
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 04:24:29 PM by BigMike »
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Re: The Good News About *
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2009, 06:10:09 PM »

Just to clairify, I did'nt look for a particular 'weakness' in your postings. As I said in my first post, I just skimmed over the whole thing and I basically responded to your last post I came to.
Post 20 is a viewpoint of someone else, but I'm guessing you see it as truth. Post 23 looks to be a group of people from a different forum who hold similar viewpoints and questions??
One thing that did catch my attention is where you made a comment in post 4 alluding to 'how you learned it'. I have a small problem with that in the fact that there are so many teachings that, quite frankly, come from man and what man thinks. Paul even warned us of this. We all have an opioion and just b/c someone says it is this way or that, does'nt make it so. That is why we have so many different denominations with different viewpoints of what scripture means. I rely on the Word and the spirit, as does the Word itself teach. Having said that, I still don't see where believing * as not a punishment is "good news", which is why I clicked on the thread in the first place. If one is preaching no punishment in *, then that is akin to a reverse pascal's wager. This is the same thing atheists will claim... when we die, we die. No big deal. If there is no punishment from Gods wrath, then for those who do not believe, or even for some that do, they can simply say "*, live like the devil, for there is no * to be worried about, we just die". That is basically what I'm hearing in your arguement.  And btw... I did'nt post to argue.  :boxing: I just was curious as to where you're coming from and why the thread was posted in the first place.
It would seem we will agree to dis-agree.  ;D



WRM  
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 06:16:50 PM by RockWoRM »
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